Anti-Villain Nonny

Among meme's regular trolls is at least one nonny who likes to shake their finger at those who are fans of villainous characters andor who find squeaky-clean characters boring. It is not clear whether such individuals do not fully appreciate that reality is not fiction, do not get that fiction performs specific functions such as catharsis, or are simply trying to stir up wank. They are also suspected of over-the-top moralistic trolling on topics of sexuality.

Oct. 16, 2014, in "Unpopular Fandom Opinions": “Asshole characters are not appealing and not lovable despite it all.” With follow-up in the same thread a few hours later: “I think people who find Steve Rogers boring are ridiculous perma-teenagers who can't get over their obsession with bad boys – either with being one or having sex with one – and if they ever grow the hell up they'll realize a bad boy character is no more or less complex than a good one.”

Same post, different thread, next day: “"So...you want more queer characters being horrible jerks? The anti-hero love needs to die. We don't need more of them.”

Nov. 1, 2014: Here be whining about //-ist// female villains.

Nov. 23, 2014: This big wank, mostly over Loki, was a little more nuanced but still contained the dubious assertion of a direct line between fangirls who woobify Loki and people who excuse real-life rapists and abusers. Nazis were brought up.

Nov. 25, 2014, in "Things You Wouldn't Admit Unanon": “It's okay people. Your favourite villain isn't a real person and their feelings aren't going to be hurt by someone pointing out that they are indeed a bad person. It's not a poor reflection on you that you like a character that is in fact bad and evil.”

Nov. 26, 2014: “Consolidated villain wank thread.” Not terribly wanky until AVN decided to concern-troll other nonnies that they should woobify more-heroic characters instead of villains.

Dec. 3, 2014, in a thread titled “Characters you relate to”: When one nonny expressed discomfort with the fact that they strongly relate to Loki, AVN popped up again to concern-troll. Same post, same day, in a thread titled “Extreme General Fandom Opinions”: “I think canons *should* stick with black and white morality… I also disagree that a character can be both detestable and lovable.”

Feb. 4, 2015: In a thread titled “It's a popular ship, but you hate it,” a nonny stated they couldn't get into Thorki because of the incest. Another joked, "He's adopted," which kicked off a massive incest wank. After that anon clarified they were joking, someone who may or may not have been AVN replied, “For future reference, anon: rape jokes are never funny.” Most of the resultant wank consisted of this anon insisting that incest is always rape, no exceptions, and they got extremely bent out of shape at accurate phrases like “legally prohibiting sex between any consenting adults” — going so far as to call it appropriation of anti-homophobic terminology.

The subthread, and subsequent subthreads stemming from the original Thorki comment, were frozen. “Highlights” included the anon who made the “He's adopted” joke becoming very angry at having been accused of rape apologism because they themselves are a survivor of child sexual assault, another nonny taking offense at “incest always = rape” because their SO once had sex with his sister when they were older teens and “both pretty fucked up for reasons,” and possible!AVN replying to them in a subsequent thread with, “Hi 'my spouse is a rapist but that's okay because I love him anyway' anon.”

Feb. 6–7, 2015: In TYWAU, a nonny writes,

This is super embarrassing and super weird, and is intrinsically related to my feelings on fictional evil characters and people's reaction to them and is very personal and very embarrassing and I just have to say it.

I want to write a fanfic about MCU Loki growing up in Asgard and feeling ostracized and bullied and slowly becoming more and more evil as a result of this. But I want to write it in such a way that it's obvious that most of what he thinks he's suffering from is just misinterpretation on his part or else completely normal and rightful reaction to his own awful behaviour and nature, which he doesn't read as awful or worthy of censure because there's something seriously wrong with him. Basically, I want to write a fic in which Loki is the 'sad bullied victim' in his head but is actually 'the sort of weird lonely kid who is weird and lonely because there is something seriously wrong with him and he's actually an evil bad person and it's sad because he doesn't understand it but it's also completely right that everyone's being what he perceives as mean toward him.'

Because to me that's exactly how Loki reads and it actually seriously bothers me when people write him as not inherently a bad person because to me, he is. He's sympathetic, but still a horrible person and inherently a horrible person, and for all that it makes sense to feel sorry for him for however he may have felt he was being treated he actually 100% deserved it.

I'm never going to write or post it, because it would be beyond obvious how much I'm projecting onto him and also because it would probably hurt fans of his character who identify with his 'lost soul' aspect but don't actually perceive themselves as inherently evil, or at least try not to.

But there you go.

Far downthread, AVN, who may or may not have been the OP, joined in to chide another anon for making “remarkably naive” arguments and chiding them for saying, “For instance, I might consider Emperor Palpatine inherently evil, because he's chosen to be, but not Darth Vader, or a random Nazi soldier who's just doing his job, horrible though it is.”

When the ATRT observed, “I have sympathy for fictional people I wouldn't in real life,” AVN oh-so-generously replied, “As long as you remember that people in the real world who do awful things but appear to be more complex and potentially worthy of sympathy are in fact not, and need to be avoided because of the danger they pose, I guess I'm okay with that statement.”

In the next post's Venting thread (also Feb. 6, 2015), a nonny complains that someone on the previous post had been “dismissive and weird with me” because they thought this nonny was someone else. They eventually get this reply: “I wonder if they thought you were me. I once argued something similar to what you did in one of the great villain wank threads of days past. You were better off not engaging with them for a variety of reasons.”

A different nonny linked back to that post and noticed that the person who “flew off the handle” about Nazis had done the exact same thing, in the exact same way, during the Nov. 23 wank. Another nonny replied that, no, they were not AVN, just opposed to “literal Nazi apologism.” The previous anon replied,

If you are indeed the same nonnie from the big wank before, and from what I saw of this one, you tend to not really read what someone has said, and overreact quite forcefully and with a lot of judgement, which is then hard to back down from. You put words in people's mouths, assume the worst, and take what they say out of context. You are very aggressive, and yes, you do lecture people, I saw you do it over there. You do not seem to trust that other people can tell reality from fiction. You come across as very young and naïve, whilst telling others who have a more measured and nuanced understanding that they do.

I don't say this to hurt you or insult you, but possibly to help you reflect and understand the responses you are getting. I am not going to engage to any reply you may have.

Possible!AVN replied that they found that comment “extremely condescending and frankly rather offensive,” and the exchange ended there.

Feb. 7, 2015, In “Unpopular Opinions”: “I don't think there's anything particularly nuanced or thoughtful about the way people here glorify and go out of their way to apologize for and excuse abusive, manipulative and utterly awful behaviors.” Met with confusion, they clarified:

Oh, the classic, where apparently being a villain fan and being creeped out by villains' “but the poor baby” fans who also spout Nazi apologia which SORRY was actually supposed to be about fictional Nazis so it doesn't really count!! means I'm an 'anti-villain nonny'? Or something?

Lol, for a place that prides itself on being nuanced and thoughtful and without judgement you sure are quick to dismiss anyone that doesn't toe the party line.

The subthread was frozen after ten comments, most notably:

You are an idiot who can't read, can barely think, and you're probably going into whiny outraged hysterics as you read this. Other anon called you naive and young but I don't think that's the case. I think you're just stupid as a sack of bricks, and probably just aware enough that you get really angry anf offensive when people point out the idiocy of your logic and complete lack of critical thinking skills.

Go away.

Feb. 9, 2015, in a thread titled “That time you were OAA”: A nonny complains that they keep getting mistaken for AVN and for an anti-kink nonny. “I just remember those ones in particular because it's funny to me that I get dubbed the 'anti-kink nonny' or 'anti-villain nonny' for whatever reason when I actually get really mad and over the top aggressive at actual anti-kink and anti-villain nonnies when I come across them.” Other nonnies inform them that “If you act, look, and smell like a troll, you're a troll.”

Same day, next post, “Share it with meme” thread: A nonny with a penchant for self-pity apologized thus:

A comment from last post inspired this thought - sorry, nonny whose faith in humanity was restored at the thought of the most obtuse nonnies being trolls. I get in awful vicious aggressive arguments on here all the time in which every other nonny is telling me I'm an idiot who can't read and is just totally wrong footed and missing the point and stupid all the time, and I'm never trolling when this happens.

Feb. 10, 2015: In a thread merely titled “…”, a nonny complained that every single comment they've just made has been frozen, when they weren't even “wankbaity. This reply to them as well as this one strongly imply that this is the same troll taking the same self-pitying tack.

Mar. 4, 2015, in a thread titled “You're Why We Can't Have Nice Things”: AVN is back in classic form, “apologizing” repeatedly to Loki fans while insisting that

the only people who could find him sympathetic and identifiable are either completely projecting every such quality onto him and erasing his canon characterization, or are themselves as deeply unpleasant and awful as he is. More likely it's the first option, but even in that case I cannot help but believe people who do that must be naively optimistic and oblivious to emotional manipulation. It's not their fault, by any means, and I think it's stupid to judge them for it.

Mar. 5, 2015, same post, in “Fuck it let's have a Loki thread,” they started up again but were thankfully frozen after four replies.

Mar. 8, 2015: in a thread titled “Links to past wanks that still lie on your mind”: Meta discussion of AVN. It's believed they might also be a troll who harassed Eridan fans in Homestuck fandom. One nonny comes in to insist that while they've started some of the wanks that are catalogued on this page, they most certainly didn't start others of those wanks. A reply: “You're starting to be a very recognizable troll by this point, though. No one else loves talking about and linking to their every comment (and then batting their eyelashes and going 'oooh but I don't think I'm a troll, am I' batbatbat) quite as much as you.”

Same thread, same day, “TYWAU” thread: Another meta discussion. Apparently AVN used to do the same thing around the hockey anonmeme.